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Talk:Kal-El (Earth-One)
Merge or keep separate? As a rule of thumb, I despise having separate pages for what is essentially one character (discounting alternate realities and such). Kal-El (Earth-One), I feel, is one of the few exceptions to this rule. I vote to keep this page separate from that of Kal-El (Earth-One). Assuming that the histories of both characters are fully explored and documented at one point, we would end up with a character page five times as long as the current Wonder Woman page, which I think would make it too unwieldy and probably difficult to access for users with limited internet capabilities. If no one disagrees with this, then I'll remove the Merge tags from this and Superboy's page once this issue is fully discussed. --Brian Kurtz 16:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC) :See my reply at Talk:Kal-El (Earth-One). The Paradox 23:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC) Different from New Earth: debatable? I think there should be a debate whether or not this is the "same" Superman that was introduced/revamped in iMan of Steel/i #1. The reasons it could be seen as different are evident, but let's discuss why it can be seen as the "same." 1) It seems evident that around Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-1 Superman is about the same age as New Earth Superman is by the end of Man of Steel. 2) Some of the feats performed by Earth-One Superman seem to still have been performed by New Earth Superman. These include certain JLA/JSA crossovers, as well as Superman's role in Crisis on Infinite Earths 3) While some characters like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel were introduced as "new" characters, others like Batman and most others were simply reconnected, hence the Batman of Earth One and the Batman of New Earth are apparently the same being, as many differences as there are in his personality and backstory. The only character I can think of to meet a similar fate to Superman is Jason Todd, and--strangely--he isn't given a separate article for his Earth-One counterpart, even though Dick Grayson is, despite his pre-and-post-Crisis incarnations being largely the same (in fact, even Earth-2 Robin's recorded adventures as a youth aren't very contradictory to those of the Earth-1 Robin). 4) This means that somewhere in the New Universe (no, not THAT New Universe), there either is-or-was another Krypton floating around and--presumably--the Superman of Earth-1 somewhere. If not, an explanation for why these never existed is in order, and if so, why are they never involved in the major pieces of New Earth history. And either way, the following questions persist: 1) Why was the New-Krypton so different from Krypton-One? If it's the same place, then why did the culture become so different? If it's not the same place, what happened to "our" Krypton in the pre-Crisis multiverse? Post-Crisis, what happened to "that" Krypton? 2) If it's the same Martha & Jonathan, why are they so much younger when they find Clark in spite of it being presumably around the same year? If it's a different Martha & Jonathan, I find it highly coincidental that there are two of each of these people. 3) Is the Lois Lane of New Earth--and other members of Superman's supporting cast--the same one or a different one? Are they simply the same beings with different pasts? 4) If it's the same Superman, what caused this change in Kryptonian physiology that the sun would effect them differently? 5) I think I have an answer, but it's worth posing: if Supergirl never existed, who destroyed anti-Monitor's armor? Did anybody? 6) How come toward the end, Lex is in prison, Superman and Power Girl are heading for the Fortress of Solitude, and blah blah blah? ::They're not like second versions of the characters in the same universe. There aren't two Kent families running around in Smallville, and there's only one Krypton. After the Crisis, The Man of Steel thoroughly revamped Superman's origins and significantly altered them from the Silver Age interpretations of the character. So, they're not really new characters, they just have vastly modified personal histories. Although Kal-El (New Earth) and Kal-El (Earth-One) occupy the same space in the stories, we count them as different characters because of their irreconcilable stories, and also because combining the two pages would serve no purpose. It would only make things impossibly long and confuse people further over the already complicated details of the character. :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 19:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC) First appearance If Superboy and Superman are going to be separate characters the first appearance in Kal-El (Earth-One) should be Superboy #1 (where he appears as a flash-forward) Superman #46 (where Superboy appears as a flashback) or Superman #76 (this is my bet, 'cause this is his and earth-one's first canonical appearance). If no one disagrees with this, then I'll put Superman #76 like his first appearance in Kal-El (Earth-One) till this issue is fully discussed. --Civil Warrior 2:12, 08 October 2016 (UTC) :When I told you to take it to the talk page, I meant "and change it after discussion". Not change it before anyone can respond. This is part of the perennially resurfacing discussion (which then gets ignored again) to merge this with Kal-El (Earth-One). --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:18, October 8, 2016 (UTC) ::I'm in the merge camp. I don't think it is particularly useful to have separate Earth-One Superboy or Superbaby pages. It's all the same character. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 23:01, October 8, 2016 (UTC) :::Same here. :::The "First Appearance" though becomes a pain as it is for so many of the characters that saw continuous publication from the lat 40s through the early 60s. There really are no clean breaks for almost all of them. :::The Superboy strip is a rare exception since, when DC later decided that the golden age Superman was Earth-Two and the silver age Earth-One, they dictated that Earth-Two's Superman did not operate as Superboy. That makes or the unlabeled first appearance of both Earth-One and its Kal-El. :::Side note 1) and are cases in point as to why I dislike the template. It opens the door to guessing a story order when none is explicit. I really think that it could just be redirected to with little or no loss. :::Side note 2) More of a general thought on characters like Superman, Lois Lane, Batman, Robin, Aquaman, Green Arrow, etc, the point of transition should be explained in the notes. :::- Byfield (talk) 04:34, October 9, 2016 (UTC) :I can give a hint to help you. In Marvel Fandom, the first appearance as a different alias is shown in this way appears on the War Machine page. I thought well use this model for all characters that had more than one alias. --Agente Leite (talk) 16:07, October 9, 2016 (UTC) :::::One minor point: Superboy's first appearance is , not . DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 17:01, October 9, 2016 (UTC) :::::: causes logical problems as it has Superman answering the question of what he was like when he was a boy but the cover date for that issue is April, 1949 putting this Superman in the same time period as the Golden Age Superman ergo this cannot be a story of the Earth-One Superboy.--BruceGrubb (talk) 04:08, December 13, 2016 (UTC) :::::::If Superman appeared in an introductory sequence in Superboy #1, it was the Earth-One Superman. Most Superboy appearances from 1945 to 1985 were declared Earth-One stories by DC's editors decades ago. The rare exceptions are generally noted in the Crisis Compendium. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 14:02, December 13, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::As mentioned before Mark Gruenwald postulated an "Earth-E" to explain the Super-Sons. The particular Earth he was talking about was given the name Earth-216 in the Crisis Compendium (there are two Super-Sons realities: Earth-154 and Earth-216). From what Mark Gruenwald put out, on Earth-216 Kal-El is two years old when he lands on Earth in 1930, has Superboy career, is a reporter for the Daily Planet, and marries Lois in 1960. ::::::::Compounding matters is that we have "Alternate Earth-Two" (The Official Crisis on Infinite Earths Index) where "Clark Kent worked for the Daily Planet under editor Parry White in the 1940s and 1950s" and whatever Earth-Forty-Six aka "Earth-2B" was. So it can be argued that the Superman presenting the story in Superboy #1 is the Earth-216 or more likely "Alternate Earth-Two" Superman which means we aren't reading about the Earth-One Superboy.--BruceGrubb (talk) 16:22, December 14, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::Not entirely convinced on this. Maybe the admins can give their opinions. I'm still leaning toward leaving it on Earth-One. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 15:02, December 16, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::I've addressed the issue by leaving a note that explains that many inconstancies between what would otherwise be "Earth-One" stories with actual Earth-One continuity were retroactively stated as having occurred on another Earth. I also eliminated the "Clark's glasses are also used to enhance his low-grade subconscious hypnotic ability" material as that is clearly on Earth-Thirty-Two not Earth-One.--BruceGrubb (talk) 16:07, December 20, 2016 (UTC) :I do not know if you know, but most of the pages of this wiki have this problem and do not know if you saw my suggestion to solve this. There is a recent case of new Superwoman wherein the first appearance was as follows: as Lana Lang as Superwoman In my opinion, to solve this, you have to use the same model of Marvel Wikia. --Agente Leite (talk) 15:42, October 10, 2016 (UTC) ::Your suggestion was duly noted, but this topic is larger and doesn't belong in this talk page. If you want, you can create a forum post to talk specifically about this. - S.S. (talk) 16:15, October 10, 2016 (UTC) Height/Weight I changed the height to 6'2" and the weight to 215 lbs (98 kilograms) for the following reasons: Curt Swan's model sheet for Superman states he is 6' 2" (5' 11" when slouching as Clark). It was included as part of the Amazing World of Superman Vol 1 1 book (as the "How to Draw Superman" feature) from 1973 that also included the full-color map of Krypton . Also, in Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe Vol 1 2, Bizarro is listed at 6' 2" and 215 lbs. The Earth-One Superman was probably intended to have these stats, but of course by the time they got to the S's, the Post-Crisis/John Byrne version took its place. Delumley (talk) 01:31, November 17, 2016 (UTC)DeLumley :I reverted that because you didn't list a source, but with one, it can go in. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 08:23, November 17, 2016 (UTC) I finally figured that out. I'm a long-time Superman fan, but I'm new to this site. :) Delumley (talk) 13:46, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Middle Name? Was the Earth-One Clark Kent ever given a middle name? Shadzane �� (talk) 19:05, May 9, 2019 (UTC)